Maintain Independence | Zoë Robson

"Kindness can transform someone's dark moment with a blaze of light. You'll never know how much your caring matters."

In this episode we chat with Zoë Robson from Maintain Independence to explore how tailored approaches in rehabilitation, wellness, and nutrition are empowering individuals to lead healthier, more independent lives.

From preventing falls to sports therapy, Zoë shares insights into the transformative power of personalised care. She also opens up about her military background and her heartfelt dedication to supporting older adults and those living with dementia, making this a truly inspiring discussion.

Find out more about Maintain Independence by visiting https://maintainindependence.co.uk/

And follow Zoë on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maintain.independence

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maintainindependence

If you would like to feature as guest on a future episode of This Place, Our Voices, submit your application via our form: https://forms.gle/L33hrKYaV5Z8qq9r5

"This Place, Our Voices" Credits:

Host: Elyssa Germain
Produced By: OneZeroCreative https://www.onezerocreative.co.uk/

Transcript

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We welcome Zoe from Maintain Independence, a Nantwich based business focused on rehabilitation. Hello Zoe.

Hello. Good morning.

Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today.

No thank you.

Tell me what the story behind Maintain Independence is. Where did it all start?

Okay, so I am a veteran, and I served 12 years in the military, and I came out kind of very lost. Didn't really know what my role was anymore. I left, my son was 18 months old, and I fell from superwoman that I felt in the army being military police to just mum with no identity. And then I fell into an amazing job within the care sector, working for a local care provider and I spent seven and a half years with them and the last three I actually led the team across northwest. So, I was very privileged to do that role. but what I realised was that within the care sector we look after our residents and the people that need us the most so, so well but a little bit too well. So, falls is a massive thing. and to prevent them, it's just easy to stop people from moving. Yeah. and also, the time it probably takes older people to do things when you're, you know, you don't have enough staff, you know, within your care home, then it's just easy to do it yourself. So, we're ending up with people who are having falls. They're not moving, they're declining because they're not being stimulated mentally. They're not getting those natural neurotransmitters being released because they've achieved something, they've, you know, they've been excited, you know, they're looking forward to something. so, within my job that I did within this care provider was rehabilitation and just from getting to know the person using my skills was able to, I've been able to get people home again. So, like 90-year-olds who maybe thought actually I've had too many falls, I can't live with myself, I'm going into a care home. You know, I did enough to work with him to get them back home again. So yeah, so I feel very honoured to be able to work with people like that and to be a part of their lives and their story and their journey. because it's a ripple effect. You help one person, it isn't just, you know, even if somebody doesn't go home, you're helping them to maybe use and knife and fork again. That means that the actual, the care stuff that working with them can support somebody else and then They've got a bit more of independence and control in their life. So, I have had a couple of startup businesses within the time that I left the army. Nothing quite seemed right. And then I kind of like, you know what? I'm so passionate about this. But not only that, I'm so passionate about helping veterans. because as they kind of, you know, I've worked with a couple who have dementia and sometimes it's really hard to get into, you know, who is that person, how do I get them to work? What is the trigger words that I can use to kind of get this person to work with me. But being a veteran, it really, it really, really helps. Yeah, I have to dumb down some of my femininity sometimes. but, you know, so I'm really, really passionate about that. So that's really where it came from.

What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced in the early days?

well, I am pretty early still. So, I started the company two and a half years ago, but it was very much part time. And actually, in June or July this year I actually got the clinic space, this area here, and I became a limited company in September. So, it's all very, very early days. But I think actually my biggest struggles is getting people to be aware of my service. So, it's such a unique service where I predominantly work people with dementia, which is something that not a lot of people do. So, it's just getting the information out there that hey, I'm here, I'm here to support, I've got the information, I know how to work with older people. but that's probably my biggest struggles is just, and also social media is just crazy. I have found from posting on different sites I, know now kind of or I still a learning thing but what I can, and I can what I'm getting engagement with what I'm not. But yeah, marketing is a crazy, crazy thing when you don't know much about it.

Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. So, it takes a lot of time and effort.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

If you don't get anything from it immediately, it can be quite disheartening, can't it?

Oh, absolutely, yeah. There's been sometimes I've sat on a post for three or four days and it's just been like, then like send it to my sisters. Like, is this, does this sound all right? Do you think I could send this? Do I, do I sound crazy? I think also being a woman where your hormones change throughout the month for me certainly there'll be days and I'm like, come on, I’m gonna take on the world. And other days I just want to fall in leaf a rock because I just want to be small and stuff, but I haven't got the choice of doing that. So, learning as well about myself and, and you know, just taking each day as it comes, each minute as it comes. Taking every opportunity like yourself. When I saw your podcast, I was like, yes, come on, come and chat to me. Yeah. So just. Yeah, marketing, that's probably and getting the information out there.

Absolutely. I suppose with the clientele that you are seeing that generation aren't necessarily going to be seeing your social media posts, but it's the families that are behind them that need to put two and two together and think actually this information is quite important for my family member.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not just exercise in rehabilitation. It could be nutrition. It could be. I had a referral from one of the GP practises and this lady was living with Parkinson's and it wasn't just the rehabilitation that I could support her with were it be, from a cardiovascular point of views and like a mechanical bike, or some manual therapy but it also in nutrition. So, we were looking at actually her medication. The time when she was having a medication was really important for somebody with Parkinson's. but food groups, so as an example, if you eat protein at the same time that you're having your Parkinson’s medication within the digestion tract, they actually fight for absorption. Yeah. So, if somebody isn't aware of that, then they might be having. I don't. An omelette and then having their, their Parkinson's medication. It could be that the Parkinson's medication isn't being absorbed to the rate that they need it to, which is going to have a profound effect on their mobility, this speech, what they can do throughout the day. So, there's a lot more than just the rehabilitation exercises and stuff.

Yeah. So, a lot goes into it. There's a lot of science behind it.

Yeah. It's a whole 360. Right. Who are you? What can I do to help you? And a lot of the times. So, I do a lot of home visits, it's more of a case of this is your home, this is your environment. How can I keep you independent? Maintaining the independence at home, doing what you want to do. You can't reach that shelf anymore. Well, let's do some exercises to get you there. You're really struggling to bend down. You know, all those types, functional things to keep people living the life that they want to live.

I think people do suddenly decide, oh, well, I'm X years old. This is just a part of growing old. I just need to accept now that I can't do this or that. That isn't necessarily the case then.

no, it's not. Falls are not an inevitable part of ageing. What I found with veterans is it's just instilled not to give up. I'll give you an example. This amazing man that I worked with. I'm not going to mention his name. He was 92, broke his back and he was in and out of hospital for a couple of months and then he came to this care provider, and nobody knew why he was still wearing this support, on his torso. Nobody. He was frail. He was. He just looked at, with. He just looked like he'd given up. You know, he was just a shell of himself. And when I started working with him, chatting about being a veteran, I mean, he would have served like the end of World War II, type time, you know, he was, you know, a lot older than me, but we had that, we had that in common. So, then I had to chase around. I was speaking to NHS at, rehabilitation centres, hospitals. Why is this gentleman still got this back brace on? Nobody could tell us. Eventually we got it removed. and then he. He was so willing, but his body was like, you know, he spent so much time off his feet, so he had no proprioception’s. So, proprioception is where your body is in space and time and your brain knows where it is. So, if you, you can stand up now and you don't even need think about what your feet are because you know where they are. But if you imagine, if you sit on your legs for too long, your brain is like, oh, what are they doing? so I started working with them in the march and just an absolute lovely, lovely gentleman who just had so much will and want to, you know, to do and get home and things. Like I said, we had this thing in common. Have been in the military. The banter is very, you know, not quite PC, I guess. I don't really know ‘you. Know, it was just a lovely relationship. we got to the point where he was able to stand again. and I remember one particular day, because at that point then the NHS physios came in and there was one particular day they turned up with this tiny Little modular step. And I said, right, so we're, we're, we're gonna do these little steps and don't worry, we're go gonna be there to support you. Turned around and went. I did the whole flight stairs yesterday with Zoë. I think I'm good. So, it was just kind of like, I've got a goose was just thinking about it. So that was the march I started working with him and he was a very frail, poorly man. by December, he walked out of that establishment and went home at the age of 92.

Amazing.

Yeah. So, he needed care for a little bit at home, but then just lived independently and lived the way that he chose to. and unfortunately, during COVID he ended up back into the care system because he was very poorly, had to heart failure and then passed away. And I went to a funeral, and I was mentioned at his funeral, but I just. Although it was really, really sad because this man was just amazing, to have been able to have helped somebody right at the end of their life to live the way that they choose to, there's just no better feeling. When I left the army, I used to come home on leave or before I left the army, I used to come home and leave and people say, what did you do and. Or what do you do for a job? And I said, I'm in the army. And I felt kind of, you know, look at me, you know, I don't even know how to explain it. And then left, became a mum. Although that's the best job ever. Ever. But having worked with these veterans and the older people and getting them home again and just supporting them to do what they want to do; it beats being in the army. Like, that feeling, it's just, wow. It's like I have a magic wand. But there's nothing magic in it. It's just being kind and listening and wanting, you know, to be supportive and things like that.

So. And taking your knowledge of the human body.

Oh, absolutely.

It is science, like you say, it's not magic, but there is some very specific science behind it.

Absolutely.

Would you say there was any, common misconceptions that people have about what you do? Because I would say them listening to you now, it's really scientific. How can anyone say, oh, that's a load of rubbish, but do you ever come across that?

no, I think there is not enough information out there about the rehabilitation sector. So quite a lot of the time people either refer to me as a physio or say Are you a physio? I'm not a physio. there's a lovely physio across the road that and they deal with more kind of health conditions. my main qualification is soft tissue therapy, but then I've done advanced qualifications in neo, and pulmonary rehabilitation. I'm also a nutritionist, and I'm registered with the Royal SOC of Public Health. I just don't think there's enough information out there or knowledge. I was working with a lady very recently and she came to me with knee pain, and we sorted that out and it was great. And then something else happened and something else happened. but in between the appointments when she was feeling quite low, we moved on to nutrition. so, I have this body map book which I carry. It's like a little bible and whenever I, ah, kind of speak to people about certain things like, oh, you've got this problem with your muscles. People aren't really interested. So, this lad, I was like, oh, this is your pso is muscle and it attaches from your, your bottom vertebrae and goes free to your hip. a really important hip flexor. She like, I don’t. Really care, I just want to know how you’re ‘going to fix it. so, I think there's just not enough information out there about the different types of resources, that are available. It's not just physio, or personal trainer. There, there's a lot in between.

It does make sense because I'm like that with my car. You've got a mechanic going, it's this, it does this, it don't really care, just fix it.

That's a good way of kind of.

I suppose it depends on your interest in the subject and obviously you're passionate about it and you're trying to provide that information, and some people will probably go, oh, all right, okay. So, if they can actually make sense of what the issue is in their mind, not accepting it necessarily, but it gives more of a positive spin to know how they're going to overcome that, and they will overcome it with your health. What does a typical client of maintain independence look like?

So, I have athletes, and then I have really old people. and I shouldn't say that because I got told off for saying it. I did, an event with Tandy Health and Fitness. he rented a room here and there was a couple of us, but true physio came over and we ordered these talks and different things, and I was doing something on nutrition, and I said an older person needs this, that and the other. And then somebody said what is an older person. I was like hu, yes. So. So I need to stop saying older person because I guess it's up to perspective, isn't it? Or what an older person is.

I suppose it's. People do get offended but it's no difference than when you're pregnant over a certain age and you're a geriatric

It is just a term, isn't it?

Yeah. yeah, but I work with people who are in their 100th. 100th. If you can say that. Yeah. And have worked with. The oldest person I worked with was 104. Wow. but then there's kind of younger people. I worked with, a young girl who was playing for England rugby. so, it’s kind of. So, within the clinic space I kind of do more hands-on stuff, soft tissue therapy, dominantly younger people, active people. And then the home visits are for older people, whether it being a care home, their own home, maybe a family member's home. so, there is an array of ages. Yeah. I used to actually run at a boot camp when I first came out of the military, for kids. and I did that in Nantwich Primary School on a Saturday morning. it didn't last too long. Kids just start. I have my own. I think that's what I can deal with. Kids just. That isn't my, my forte.

Older people, older people are the better people.

Yeah.

We'll take suggestions for the right term. yeah, Yeah.

I mean 65 plus. That's what. When I look at nutrition and actually, I haven't got any books here today, but the government released a book called Volume 41 and it's kind of every type of vitamin, mineral, micro macronutrient that you need and it breaks it down by age groups and I think it's like 65 and over, is classed as older. But my MU's going to be 60 this year and’s looking at. I ‘like you don't even. I don't. I'm sure that even if I changed it, somebody else would probably say it ‘better to say seniors or something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, that lady did say what is an older person? I was like, really sorry for saying that. Probably just be really factual. 65 and over. We'll go, we'll go with that. Yeah.

What advice would you give to someone who feels that your services may be for them if they're listening to this now thinking, do you know what I think actually? So, he might be able to help.

Me just get in contact. Just. There is, maybe you can have a look at my videos on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. I have a website which I'm trying to upload, some video content into there. because I know that different people absorb information in different ways. And at the moment my website is very much text and there's a couple of videos on there. So, I'm also trying to do a free YouTube kind of video thing. So, if you're living at home and you have a specific injury or you just need some support, I don't know, you've got arthritis in your fingers in like small little videos, maybe just snippets. I also run group sessions, here at Frederick House on a Monday and a Wednesday. So, the Monday one is called Neuromotion. So that is where targeting people neurologically instead or as well as physically. So, the concept there is people that don't understand instruction can't communicate effectively and just targeting them in a really clever way to help with balance. So that's a really exciting and fun, session on Monday and then on a Wednesday. It's just a falls prevention. M. I say just it's not just because falls are really, really scary. I fell at the train station a couple of months ago and I was holding on to my husband's hand and my husband's, you know, husband's 6 foot 10. He's massive, huge. and he was holding on to me, but I still went down and even though he was there, I had heels on. So that's probably why I fell because. And I wasn't drunk or anything. It was just. We were going for a dayer, and I got up and I was so embarrassed. My knee was really, really sore. I went to the chemist, and I bought some paracetamol. And then on the way back, so a couple of hours in Cheston, then on the way back, as we got off the train in crew and I was heading towards the place where I fell over, my hearing went completely. I went sweaty. I was like grabbing onto my husband's hand even harder. It was as if my body went into sensory overload. If you've just fallen, you don't want to do that again. And actually for a few weeks after that I was still really unsteady on my feet. So, I’m 40 and very kind of I run know all that type of Stuff and I can only imagine what somebody who is feeling very vulnerable, very alone, very scared, how they must feel if they’re having near misses or falls. So, the falls prevention group session is about, taking risks in a really, really careful way. And it's a really fun session and it's a social session.

Yeah, targeting stuff as well in the brain, using the Mozart effect and music and things like that. O yeah. So, it's quite a. I mean, like I said, falls aren't an inevitable part of ageing. It's not. You get to a certain point in life, and you just have falls. there's so much that can be done. Yeah, so much they've been done. So those two group sessions. So, if there is somebody out there who thinks this might be right from there’s different options. I did a team session with a gentleman the day who was in his early 80s and I had obviously my laptop and my screen was there, but he had an iPad and it just, it just kept slipping down. so, at one point in I see his face and then his hand was over the camera and then it was just his tummy I could see. So.

Aw, Fair play to. For using an iPad. At 80.

I know, to be fair, we didn't. When I spoke to him on the phone, he didn't sound that age at all. He sounded a lot, lot younger. but, yeah, bless. So, yeah, there's lots of different options. Lots of options.

One of the unique selling points for maintain independence for yourself, though, is the focus, on dementia and the dementia journey. How does that play into your business and how it looks now?

Okay. So, I have been in a really honoured position to be able to support people dementia for the last seven and a half years or when I was with my previous employer. And it's something that is, a very difficult condition or health condition to get into and to understand. And I found that when somebody had a fall or a fracture or something like that, quite often they wouldn't be given the services from the NHS that they would have done had they not had dementia. Because it's so difficult when you've got somebody who doesn't understand instruction, can't communicate. It's just looking at your blank in the face, maybe quite aggressive. and I think having daily interactions with people with dementia, people living with dementia, it just comes from experience of how to work with those. There's no courses that you can do to how. There's nothing out there apart from understanding the actual illness. So dementia, if anybody doesn't know. It's an Umbrella term for over 200 different types of neurological conditions. So, Alzheimer's comes underneath that frontal, temporal lobe, bluer bodies, vascular dementia, which are kind of the top four. Even Parkinson's comes under the word dementia. so that term itself. Cause I think a lot of people say, oh, they've got Alzheimer's. And you know, there's a lot of, kind of confusion. So, and actually it doesn't matter the type of dementia somebody's got in regards to how I work with them. sometimes, it's good to know because some, you're more likely to fall with certain types of dementia. but it's really getting to know the person. There was a lady that I was working with, and she was really struggling to eat. And she would just walk, just keep walking and very happy, you know, just very, you know, happy. Just walk around and bump into people and just smile and everything. and I looked through a care plan. That's something that care providers have that is kind of who is this person? What do they need? All those types of things. And one of the things that stood out to me was she spent a long time in Greece, and she spoke Greek. So, I was walking with her one day and I was like, I just don't know how to get this woman to kind of engage. I don't know how to, you know, deal with this. And I brought up a translator on my laptop and I don't even know what I put in there. It was something Greek. And she stopped and she looked at me and she replied to me, and I was like, okay, don't know what we're doing here. And then she came and followed me, and I just kept talking to her in Greek. I don't. Can't remember what was said. And she sat down, and she started to eat. She started just because there was little snacks and stuff around. So, the dementia, it's not an easy thing to kind of support with, but there's loads, loads and loads and loads and loads. but sometimes it could be that somebody has ended up in bed and really, they're not going to be able to get out of bed, but actually they're in quite a lot of pain. so it could be that my services and what I can do is more manual therapy, some massage therapy and kind of moving joints and stuff, so ‘get pressure sores. I know I keep saying it, but it's a real honour to be able to work with people who have dementia. it all comes down to, experience and just getting yourself involved with people with dementia. I think people sometimes maybe shy away or don't know how to talk or be around somebody with dementia. Especially if they come into kind of that later stage and they may be quite aggressive or are very loud or the other, they're very reserved. and it just comes down to just getting to know the person and just treating them like anybody else that you would meet on the street. there's nothing to be afraid of.

What treatment plans do you do normally? Do you do like a consultation for people if they want to just come and meet you, see what you might be able to help them with.

Okay. So predominantly in the clinic, it's probably, if it's a sports massage, it would just be a one off and then may be booked in every couple of weeks if there's an injury. So, at the moment I'm treating somebody with a shoulder injury. It's kind of a book in. You know, we set kind of, you know, certain weeks that we need. quite often when I'm doing home visits, it can become months with somebody because we'll go in with one thing and like I said about the Sean working with a, that we go with one thing that's been sorted and something else happens and in that particular case she was having, like I said, really, really bad knee pain. We sorted that out. Then someone else happen, then someone else happen and then someone else. But now we've got to the point that actually we think we found where the issue is, working with people who don't move as much when they're living in their own homes. Old people, people 65 plus, 85 plus. I guess that's probably, you know, that age, yeah, it can be very difficult. Whereas when you're working with somebody in rehab who like me and you, who's very active, it tends to be that the time that we need is less. I guess. So yeah, it's a consultation. regardless of home visit or in clinic or even online links to your.

Social medias, I, will put them into the description of this podcast.

Well, I think it's just maintained independence. I think, there's a Facebook, and Instagram. I think it's. The Instagram is maintained up, but if you have a look on my website, all the social media is on there. I'm even trying to Snapchat. Don't know how it works but you know, getting out there, LinkedIn as well, which is a really, really good platform, for sharing things. Yeah, I really quite like LinkedIn actually. But yeah, TikTok is kind of the thing I'm concentrating at the moment is TikTok because I'm. I actually really enjoy seeing the videos and it's a bit different feedback from Facebook where it's kind of people selling.

Things and TikTok ‘definitely something that I don't think many people in your industry would be doing. So that's unique and it's nice because this is a serious business. People are dealing with some serious issues and some serious pain. But as you probably have done in your previous career, just gotta have a smile and have a laugh about it, haven't you?

Yeah, I think I of started my TikTok with education, that stuff and it, I wasn't getting much back. But also, I think when you're not yourself then it comes across, you know, even when you look back the back I. Oh gosh, that was a bit cringy. but when you're passionate about something and it's just you then you only live once. This isn't rehearsal. Just do it, get it done and then think about it next week. But it's done already so you. Do you know what I mean? Just you know, TikTok and I’ve had some abuse on it. I don't know. Abuse is the right. Yeah, a lot of veteran’s kind of are on there and I've just had to delete it.

You know, just that veteran banter.

Think. Yeah. So, the job I did was military police, and they're not very well liked. So even now my uncle was at the parade in London at the weekend and he said that there was a group of military police and a group of Paris and then they ended up throwing bananas at them and st. It's just they get caught. Monkeys in the military. so yeah, there's a lot of a lot of stick for somebody in the military police. But that's being a veteran, m being part of that community. There's always going to be banter about the fact that that's the job I did. and yeah, it's just an amazing community and actually TikTok has. So, this year was the first remembrance parade I went to. So, I left 10 years ago and last year. So where are we at now? 2023, was the first year wore my medals after I left the military. I felt when I left, I felt, I felt guilty, I felt embarrassed, I felt all the negative emotions about leaving the Military, and I did it for the right reasons. I left because I wanted to be a mum. My son was 18 months old. and it's a really funny place to be when you have been part of this family. You've had the security of medical provisions, dental provisions, money, coming in all the time. You have somebody next door constantly, you have a team of people who get you, understand you, who want to support you and then you just left alone. So, it took me a long, long time and I think working with the veterans that I do. I have a very, very lovely friend called Jerry, who is a veteran who lives in a care homes, ex-Navy. And talking to him about mean different services and different ages, but just talking to him. Last year I went, I was with him for Remembrance Day. and I was so nervous, put my medals on. I was just. So, it's this whirlwind of not knowing where you belong at all. And then this year, just from being on TikTok and being part of the veteran’s community and things like that and just seeing. I felt a bit more like I need, need. I need to be there; I need to see. So, yeah, this year was the first remembrance parade I did. and I wasn't part of the parade. I was just there in Nantwich for my family. yeah, there's not enough out there for veterans. somebody who was, well, coming out, you know, I didn't have any injuries. you know, I was. I'd started to retrain before I left the army so there was a lot of stuff in place. But even then, coming out of the army and being pushed into this civilian life, it's like this. Different planets. Different planets completely. And actually, even my previous employer, I've had to learn so much patience. So, the team that I led of beautiful, beautiful team and I felt so honoured, just amazing. I couldn't wish her better. A team. But the different personalities and the way that you have to deal with different people and the way you speak, it's just very, very different from being in the military where, you know, where you stand. you know, there's policies and procedures and, you know. So, yeah, this year ‘the first Remembrance Day, I went to and posted that on TikTok got a bit slated because of'm military police, but or ex-military police. so that I'm really, really passionate about helping veterans. Really, really passionate. I think older adults and, saying that I don't know, just. I guess I refer to older adults and veterans almost come hand in hand. And I think there's is not enough out there for people who have had, who've given signing that online at 17 and then their bodies have been destroyed from walking in boots the whole life, whatever. So, if I can play a little part on helping, somebody with pain or just living a bit more comfortably, then I want to do it. So, I've got a blue light card discount for military all the time. But obviously the blue light card isn't just military person now, it's for people who work in the care sector. I think police are on there, people that work for the ambulance service. So, there's always a blue light discount on there, there's always discounts. if I could do my service for free, I absolutely would. I, I just, you know, when I've left somebody's home and I've gone in there and maybe they have got the worst Parkinson's shakes that they've had in a long time and then I've left and they're almost kind of still or, you know, they were in pain in the knot or, you know, just to be able to help somebody, you know, it's just, just. I don't know if I could do.

It for free, I would, but unfortunately.

I've got bills to pay.

Yeah, well, unfortunately, I hear a great phrase this week, paying into your karma bank.

Oh.

And I'm a big believer in that. and I think yours is probably overflowing with the work that you do.

Oh, wow, that's a really nice way of putting it, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I love helping people. Do you know, yesterday, I don't know who I thought I was yesterday, so I went to this, there was an event on, with the South Cheshire chambers, and it was a marketing, social media kind of thing. two lovely ladies who running it. so, I was in heels, and I was driving back towards home and there was this truck, and he had gone around the Roundabout too quickly and loads of bricks had fallen out. And there's me, my heels with my blazer on, you know, my hair swooping in, jump out of my car, put my hazards on and down at the roundabout and I'm out on the road. We were picking up these bricks and I got in the car, said, why did I do that? Why did I not just.

It's training, it's still in there. You have to probably untrain yourself for things like that.

I don't know what it is. and I don't know, I don't know, just I think that when you see somebody that's in need, it's just a great thing to not want anything in return, if that makes sense. Just to help some just be kind. I'm very big at, you know, seeing something social media. Last night I saw something Nantwich community page and somebody had written I'm really excited to announce that me and my husband have released this clothing brand. Nobody had liked it, and they put it on hours before and you know what? I thought I'm gonna like it, I'm gonna go yay you. Well, that took me seconds to do and that probably wouldn't have meant so much to that person to be able to have a like and you know, and then I went to followed them, you know. So, it doesn't take a lot just to be nice and kind and to support people for no reason.

Yeah. And that definitely goes for all social media. Doesn't cost anything to like to share, to comment as long as it's polite.

Nice.

I am encouraging.

Absolutely. Yeah.

If everyone can follow you on social media, maintain independence and obviously the podcast as well while you're there, make sure you do that.

Absolutely. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for your time, Zoe.

Thank you.