Va Va Groom Holistic Dog Grooming | Vanessa Barber

"Dogs do speak, but only to those who know how to listen"

In this episode, we sit down with Vanessa Barber, the visionary behind Va Va Groom Holistic Dog Grooming, a holistic dog grooming salon nestled in the heart of Nantwich.

Vanessa shares her inspiring journey to becoming one of the first certified Holistic Grooming Behaviourists. She discusses how her unique approach prioritises building trust and consent with each canine client, ensuring a low-stress grooming experience tailored to individual needs.

Tune in to learn how Vanessa's dedication to holistic grooming is transforming the industry and enhancing the well-being of dogs in her care.

Find Va Va Groom here:

https://vavagroom.com/

https://www.facebook.com/vavagroomnantwich

https://www.instagram.com/va_va_groom_nantwich

https://bookings.tuftapp.com/api/groomer?id=5126

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/VA+VA+GROOM

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"This Place, Our Voices" Credits:

Host: Elyssa Germain
Produced By: OneZeroCreative https://www.onezerocreative.co.uk/

Transcript

In this episode we welcome Vanessa from Va Va Groom Certified Holistic Dog Grooming, Nantwich. Va Va Groom focuses on holistic dog grooming and Vanessa is one of only a handful of certified holistic grooming behaviouralists in the country. Very impressive Vanessa. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

So, I think the most natural place to start is please explain to me what is a holistic dog groomer?

Well simplistically it's taking the whole dog into account so it's taking things like its health, issues, any home life, issues breeding, any trauma in its past. So, it's basically taking all that into account whilst you're grooming, basically. So, I like to consider it as a dog centric approach. You'll hear it referred to by other people as consent based or force free, fear free and also cooperative grooming. But it's, it's all under the same umbrella basically and it really means that it's focusing on the physical, emotional and psychological well-being during the grooming process. So, it's not really just about the haircut.

How would you categorise conventional dog grooming in comparison to what you do?

Well, conventional, if I give, I suppose I'll give an example because conventional grooming, so they're considered stylist groomers whereas holistic groomers are ah, behaviourist groomers. So that would be if you take a cockapoo and it goes into a conventional groomers for a teddy cup, it'll be put onto a high table and because it's on a high table it needs restraints and it'll be brushed with a slicker brush all over it. It'll have its nails clipped, health cheque for teeth is eyes, nails, skin etc., bathed, blasted in the bath, fluff dried on the table and then clipper and scissor to style. So, there's quite a lot going on there. So, I have a couple of cockapoos that have been referred to me by conventional groomers because they're unable to cope with that and that sort of process just doesn't work for them. So, after they come to me for a meet and treat to consultation, I've given them a care plan and we put in place all the things it needs to basically be able to cope with grooming. So, this could be shorter sessions, breaking during the process, breaking down the process, removing the bath, you know, so we don't have to consider that at all. Working on desensitisation, for particular areas, legs is a common one. A lot of dogs don't like the legs being worked on we do conditioning and counter conditioning so that it's getting used to it associating, it's breaking a negative association with grooming that it has and it's building up to a more cooperative and collaborative grooming session which doesn't stress them out and unnecessarily make them fearful and worried. And as you've seen from the setup, I usually work on the floor or a low table, so I don't have restraints. We use mat and table protocol, so the dog's free to remove itself from the table or the mat. and when they do that, the groom stops and once they come back, they're ready for me to carry on. So, it's building up a relationship basically of trust. and the dog knows that I'm not going to push them past what they're comfortable with.

Would you say that Cockapoos are a typical breed that require this extra level of consideration or rather other breeds that are especially beneficial of this approach?

Every dog can be different. I'd never like to generalise. I do seem to have cock a poos, but I also have a hell of a lot of, Cocker spaniels. So, whether or not the combination, together isn't a good one for that, it really does depend on the dog and the experience.

So where did your interest start with this side of dog grooming?

It was, it was really, I'd always grown up with dogs and horses, but it never really occurred to me to work with them at all. And it wasn't until the pandemic, and it was my husband's idea and then I was just like, oh, I can't believe I hadn't thought of this before. Why hadn't I thought of this? And I literally sat by the window and counted the number of dogs that came past their owners, rough ages, what breeds they were. Then I worked out how often they need to be groomed based on that just to see if it was feasible. And it was, Yeah, I mean, it was more than feasible. There's so many dogs in Nantwich. So, I booked to do my IP Pet Level 3 dog grooming and salon management. And it was actually one of the tutors there that noticed that had a calming effect on the dogs and she suggests to me to look up holistic grooming and to Stephanie Zickman, who's the founder of the Holistic Grooming Academy. So as soon as I finished There I joined and started learning the level five holistic grooming diploma. and that I haven't really looked back since.

There's not anything wrong with conventional grooming but if the dog that somebody owns is absolutely fine, they're really chill. Conventional agreement is absolutely fine but with a holistic approach that it's maybe just that little bit extra care, that little bit of extra consideration. If you have a dog that, that is nervous or you're not sure how they're going to react to, to grooming, it's a good route to go down maybe to start off with or would you look at it something that maybe somebody does as a solution to how their dog reacts at a current groomer?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean there are dogs out there that handle very, you know, they will handle the conventional grooming process very well, which is great. And I'm not knocking any of the local groomers. I know how hard and how skilled and how caring that they are, and I think there's many dogs that they'll go to for years and they'll be perfectly happy and that's wonderful, that's great. And I think it depends on how resilient the dog is. It depends on if they've had a good upbringing, you know, if they're from puppy farms, they're from rescues, had a background that's you know, had some sort of trauma or negativity in it. They're not in the best place to cope with lots of changes and they're not going to be trusting of humans as ah, some other dogs who haven't had those negative experiences. So, it's not necessarily that the groomers are doing anything wrong, it's just the dog can't handle it. So that's kind of where I come from. But I mean I've had puppies, you know, and I do have dogs on my books that probably could handle conventional grooming. They just happen to come to me. I like to specialise in the more problem cases because I like to help, and it increases my learning and it's good that I'm the only sort of person in this area doing that. so it is quite niche but there is a need for it and I think there is a need for traditional conventional grooming but an alternative, those that can't handle it of a holistic or thought force free cooperative grooming to balance that for dogs that because like pandemic puppets seem to be a lot of issues there as well because obviously they were brought around people who at the time weren't going through the great thing themselves. And dogs do feed off people's emotions and sense. People's energy and then that transfers, you know, with. They go into a grooming salon and then they're not necessarily being listened to, you know, like the groomers put them on the table, they have to secure them. That's what you're trained to do. But that could just be the last straw and send that dog into a meltdown, you know. And that's basically what holistic grooming is, to recognise the signs and to come up with imaginative and ways to be able to handle, to get the same effect done without using those, the triggers that will make the dog react basically and stressed.

It is really interesting. I'd never heard of a holistic dog groomer before. I've visited various groomers, very happy with all of them. However, you do get attuned to things you see on social media. You do see those posts where they're like at the end of the tether because they just don't know what to do. Their dogs reactive to the groomers and they are at a loss. It's nice to know that if anyone listening has had that experience where like we say, it's not the fault of the groomer, it is just the dog and we can't speak to the dog, we don't know what the dog wants or doesn't want and it's an option that perhaps a lot of people don't realise is available to them.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I have a lot of other groomers that refer dogs to me because, you know, obviously a dog might have deteriorated in the process and you know, there's certain things, illnesses, anything that’s, you know, if they're in pain or what have you, they need a little extra TLC, which conventional grooming is set up in a particular way and my setup is set up for the dog. Whatever the dog needs, you know, I'm on the floor with it if that's where they're happy to be. You know, I use my hands if I need to pick them up so that I can work underneath them. You know, it's just a completely different setup which a lot of groomers, even if they wanted to do that, it would be a lot of adjustment. and it's harder to do on a more commercial kind of level. you know, like multi groomer setups and things like that. You know, it's complicated and it wouldn't necessarily work. If a dog's triggered by another dog, you know, it's best not to take it to a multi groomer.

Yeah. Do you have any sceptics in what you do?

Well, I think there will be sceptics. I haven't really come across many. I don't think I have really. I, maybe a few people that are a little bit dubious sometimes. but when they come to the meet and treat and I talk to them and then they come back with the dog for the groom and they see how happy the dog is to come in, how they greet me, how they've already bonded with me, how they're like, oh my, you know, they can see the benefit in doing it. and that's like an important step of building up that trust and that relationship with the owner, and with the dog itself. But I mean, I would say to sceptics or anyone listening that thinks m, you know, not convinced by this or, you know, the Holistic Grooming Academy, it's a global, multi award winning establishment. It's a supporting member of the Animal Behaviour and Training Council. The qualification is accredited by IPET and UK Rural Skills and it's a level 5 qualification. You know, so it's degree level and all the learning in it is based from science. You know, it's not, as my husband would say, yoghurt weaving, you know, it is all based on science. In an unregulated industry like the grooming industry, us, Holistic Grooming Academy groomers, you know, we have to make a pledge, we sign a code of conduct, you know, we're expected to work to very high standards, you know, and integrity and transparency and everything we do.

Yeah.

And I think that should be reassuring to people rather than being seen as sceptical. You know, dogs are sentient beings and I'm not sure why anybody would be sceptical of consent, cooperative and force free approaches. But I can understand because of the likes of Casar Milan and South End dog trainer who advocate dominance theory and use aversive training methods. You know, the wrong message has been accepted. You know, would you put a shot collar on a toddler? No. Would you alpha roll a child that was having a meltdown? of course not. It's the dominance theory and the alpha dog kind of that's out there, but it's outdated and it's long since been debunked, as you know, flawed on multiple levels. It will work as in it will stop the Immediate behaviour, but it doesn't address why that behaviour is happening Right. So, you know, in the short term it will. You might have that you've stopped your dog barking. But what they'll do is not bark because they don't know why, but they know they shouldn't bark. And then it means that actually that might escalate to they were barking because, I don't know, they were scared or there was something and that might escalate into a bite because they've been taught not to bark.

Yeah.

So, they're learning the wrong thing.

Yeah. And training them through fear rather than love.

Yeah, but that seems to be the people that don't, you know, they think, oh, cooperative grooming, what's that? One bar for yes, two for no. You know, but it is all based on science. You know, dogs need to feel safe and positive reinforcement helps them know when they're doing something right. You know, if you think of Aesop fables with the north wind and the sun trying to get a coat off that person and it's like the gentle sun, you know, encouraging what have you in the north wind. And it just makes the person pull the cloak even, you know, closer to them and grab onto it and kind of dogs are like that, you know, the kinder and more cooperative you are with them. If you give them a choice, they normally choose the right thing. Yeah, if you take that choice away from them, they'll fight against it. It's just their instinct, you know, and using aversive methods, it doesn't really address the unwanted behaviour that they're showing. All it does is tell them that you're not listening to them, and they'll stop communicating with you. It'd ruin your relationship with the dog, and you know, eventually down the line it will lead to worse behaviour. M so I just say to any sceptic, you know, just give it a go. See the difference in your dog's willingness to enter holistic grooming salon if they, if you have to drag them through the door of a normal salon, you know, and be more willing to focus on the process rather than purely the aesthetics of the finished cut. if your dog can't handle that.

I wouldn't say I was a sceptic, but through a lack of knowledge and a lack of understanding. But the problem I think is there's a lot of noise out there, a lot of experts with inverted commas and if you're a first-time dog owner or even if you've had dogs for years, you don't know who to listen to. You don't know who is the expert. At the end of the day, you're the expert on your dog and you know that if the behaviour of your dog isn't correct, something's gonna have to change.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, yeah, the best person is with the dog all the time. They know the dog. and, you know, obviously it's their right to train them whichever way and go to wherever they want. But I feel that sometimes we're trying to address behaviours that aren't really a problem. They're dogs, they will bark, they will growl if they're trying to protect themselves. All these behaviours are dog behaviours. It is communication. I think there's a lack of understanding. But behaviour is communication and they're trying to tell you something and if you're not addressing what that is, then the communication isn't there. I mean, obviously, if your dog was going to run out into the road, yes, you're gonna grab it. You have to do what's keep them safe, but overall, I mean, I don't use any dominance or, aversive techniques or anything in my solon.

Are there any human benefits to holistic dog grooming?

Certainly, for me there are. I noticed my heart rate is much lower when I'm dog grooming and I think partly it's the contact obviously with the animals, which, you know, is great, but also the environment. You know, normally I play what I call the plinketty plonty music for the dogs and I have to convey the right kind of energy and the right kind of calmness. Previously, when I've had other jobs, I've neglected my own health. You know, like, you think that the most important thing is you've got to do this, you've got to do that, you've got to achieve the detriment of myself. And then here I've realised, well, actually I've got to look after myself because if I'm not well, if I'm not well enough, then nobody's going to look after the dogs, you know. So, it's kind of an important ritual really, of the holistic. And even in the. When I did the qualification, there was a whole unit on self because so many groomers get, injuries, overworked. You know, there's a lot of pressure to work extra hours, fit all the dogs in. If you've got your own salon and you're having to pay staff or you're having to pay all these bills and what have you, you know, there's a lot of pressure on you to succeed. So, it's certainly, an element for me that self-care is really, really important for me to do my job. But also I do think that, that, you know, the dog guardians, they benefit from the approach too because that I think a lot of guardians might feel a little bit of shame sometimes if they come to me because the dog's matted or that they, you know, they feel embarrassed that they t they can't get a brush to their dog or, you know, and I'm like, they think that their dog's the worst. And it's, you know, state in the world are so embarrassed. And I'm like, I've seen, honestly, this is nothing I've seen. Yeah, I've seen all sorts. You don't need to. And just the sense of relief that I'm not judging them. I'm not. I'm here to help. You know, we're gonna work together to solve this. You know, I think that's a big relief for a lot of owners. And also, I mean, I've had people that, you know, they stay with their dogs, they witness everything that goes on. Music, they find it themselves quite relaxing and they're just like, oh, I just wish I could stay here all day because it is a relaxing atmosphere. And one of my customers joked and she said, oh, yeah, I'm taking the dog for its pamper cause I do Reiki, I do touch massage, I do canine flow. And they were re like, oh, yeah, I'm taking the dog for its salon, you know, for its trees and what have you. And I think that they see the difference in their dog. You know, when it's stressful, they don't like to take it to a groomer where clearly the dog isn't happy to go in, isn't happy, takes a couple of days to recover from it. And I think it just makes a stressful situation not stressful for them. Yeah, so, yeah, I think there definitely is as a human benefit.

So, you mentioned Reiki there. So, do you want to just go over the services that you offer at Va Va Groom?

Yeah. the first service that everybody has to have is the meet and treat. So that's basically everybody will come, we'll have a cup of tea, coffee. I set the salon and the sensory garden up, for the dog so that they're doing animal centred free work and basically it gives the dog an association with me and the place a positive one without any grooming taking place. And whilst this is happening, I'm observing what's going on but also having a chat with the guardian and we're discussing the needs of the dogs basically. So once that's been done, obviously we've got your, your full grooms, your maintenance grooms, your bath and dries. But I also do bespoke packages for adolescent dogs because that's a very tricky time for dogs to go through grooming, elderly dogs, nervous dogs, dogs with specific illnesses or needs as well as home grooming lessons. So, if your dog may be one that doesn't necessarily need to go to a groomer all the time, but you want to make sure that they're properly being looked after at home, I can help with that. I can do scratch board sessions for dogs that might not like their paws being touched or their nails being trimmed. I obviously do nail trims and then they offer my specialist services which range from a 15-minute appointment building up gradually to a 90-minute appointment. I do the Reiki, but I don't do it just as Reiki. It's just if I notice that the dog needs calming or that's my dog, that's my mini schnauzer Lagartha on cue. then I can give some Reiki, or I can do some the touch massages. or I can do.

You're saying the magic words.

Yeah, some canine. Do you want some canine flow? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

Wouldn't be a dog themed podcast without an actual dog.

This is the quieter she's been for a while. I must have.

You're a good girl.

And then as well as that I also do products, so I sell enrichment products like licky mats, enrichment toys, food related toys. Basically, obviously you grooming products like the brushes, coat care, shampoos and then healthcare items like for the teeth and gums and household items as well like stain and odour remover that can also be used as a bedding wash but it's all-natural vegan UK made. You know it's kind of going in the ethos of my business. It's not just any old tat.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's stuff that I approve personally. I've looked into and, and I trust.

Definitely say that you're a hardcore Nantwich business as you are dead centre of Nantwich on Mill Street. So, you can't get much more nan twitch than that. But, where else can people find you? Maybe on social media or online.

They can find my Facebook page which is all capital letters Va Va groom. They can find me on Instagram, and it's Va Va groom Nantwich on Instagram and also my own web page which is www.favagrooom.com and also I am on Google Maps so if you put into Google Maps Va Va groom, you should find me and I recently the picture of where it is was a Webb furniture truck that was parked outside but that has now changed so you cannot.

But great. Thank you so much for your time today, Vanessa. And also, to Lagartha. Yes, our little ears pricked up. It's been really educational. and hopefully people listening have learned something and will call you or contact you for some help should they need it.

Lovely. Thank you very much.